Forum:Allied Arsenal
The list of stuff of the Allies in mod Red Alert: Zero. Content Infantry Attack Dog *Full Designation: Trained German Shepherd *Role: Infantry killer, anti-spy *Cost: 200 *Strong against: Infantry *Weak against: Vehicles, aircraft and structures *Abilities: Detects Invisible *Secondary Ability: Shocking Bark - Attack Dog prevents all nearby enemies from using Secondary ability for short time *Heroic Upgrade: N/A *Primary Weaponry: Teeth and claws *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Marine *Full Designation: Allied Marine Corps *Role: General infantry, building infiltration and clearing *Cost: 200 *Strong against: All infantry, light vehicles, garrisoned structures *Weak against: Vehicles, aircraft *Abilities: Clear garrison (rushing the structure) *Secondary Ability: Grenade Launcher - Launches a HE grenade on the tesignated area, giving great damage to infantry and vehicles, long reload time *Heroic Upgrade: Future Warrior - Marine is equipped with XM8A2 assault rifle and visor for greater fire range and new Kevlar vest for reduction of dealed splash damage *Primary Weaponry: XM8 Assault Rifle *Secondary Weaponry: M203 grenade launcher Guardian GI *Full Designation: "Guardian" General Infantry Anti-Armor Specialist *Role: Support, anti-armor, forward defense *Cost: 400 *Strong against: Vehicles *Weak against: General infantry (rifle) units, heavy infantry, aircraft *Secondary Ability: Deploy/Undeploy - Guardian deploys the missile launcher, undeploys it back and switch to sidearm *Heroic Upgrade: Missile Hadling - Guardians are able to fire with Javelin from structures *Primary Weaponry: M481 Javelin anti-tank missile *Secondary Weaponry: Berreta M9 pistol Medic *Full Designation: Medic *Role: Medical assistance, zone decontamination *Cost: 700 *Strong against: N/A *Weak against: Most threats *Secondary Ability: Decontaminate Ground - Removes fires and radiation from patch of ground *Heroic Upgrade: N/A *Primary Weaponry: Medkits *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Spy *Full Designation: Spy *Role: Spy, sabateur, espionage *Cost: 1000 *Strong against: N/A *Weak against: All threats, dogs especially *Abilities: Disguise, Amphibious, Wall Tunneling (upgrade) *Secondary Ability: ??? (perhaps his tunnel ability)???? *Heroic Upgrade: N/A *Primary Weaponry: Disguise kit *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 11:19, December 6, 2011 (UTC) So, the spy (Allied and Soviet spies are virtually identical) functions practically identically to the RA2 spy (in that he disguises as enemy soldiers, is unarmed, infiltrates structures and does nasty things to the enemy player, and is deadly allergic to dogs) with some modifications; *They can be upgraded to Alarm Bypass ability- allowing the spy to be completely unnoticable by enemy structures even when undisguised by enemy dogs, and another upgrade allows them to tunnel through walls (demolishing a section). *Possibly, this tunnel ability becomes automatic (he steamrolls walls he walks through)- OR, it is his secondary deploy ability (he hits deploy- and all sections of wall very close to his position are demolished, leaving a hole). The first option is more convenient, but means the spy could walk along the whole wall and trample it underfoot- while the other means more micro) So, with these in mind, we now have the list of what he does when entering various structures- I figured: *'Conyard '= halted construction for 30 seconds? *'Reactor '= blackout for 30 seconds to a minute *'Barracks '= your infantry are now trained at the next promotional level *'Factory '= your vehicles are now trained at the next promotional level *'Naval shipyard'? = your naval units are now trained at the next promotional level (this would imply that the spy could swim- which could be a good idea actually) *'Radar '= radar blackout for 30seconds to 1 minute, and possibly allows all your units to Alarm Bypass for 15-30 seconds *'Hangar '= lots of options, such as downed enemy aircraft for that structure, and your air units are now trained at the next promotional level (raises questions about the Allied AirHQ- which is both radar AND a psuedo-hangar too). *'Depot '= cash steal *'Battle Lab' = Enemy National unit OR Special Tech unit (depends which would be more potent on your side, would warrant this lab or the Adv Lab) *'Adv Lab' = Enemy National unit OR Special Tech unit OR enemy MCV blueprints for your factory. *'Armory defense/service/Sensory structure' = stops working for a whole minute or more *'Gate' = will now open for your soldiers as well as the enemy's- and the enemy won't be allerted to this change *'Superweapon' = resets the clock VolteMetalic 09:51, December 7, 2011 (UTC): The Secondary... I would keep it for later and go to the effects of entering structures. *ConYard, Reactor, Barracks, War Factory, Depot and Superweapons are all cool, no need to change anything. *Shipyard, yes I guess that Spies can be able t swim, so this effect is good. *Radar, Radar blackout is fine, but use of Alarm Bypass to all units no, otherwise its the endgame ability. *Hangar... I would make it that it rises the aircraft's promo. level. As for Air HQ, two options. It will also affect this along with radar blackout, or it dont grants this. *Battle Lab and Adv Lab, I would more go with the special unit, or something totally different, because I am not sure how the engine will handle it. As the unit will must be in the menu... *Armory etc., depends on what do you mean by these structures. *Gates, I think they may be scrapped, and if not, they cant be entered, its a wall :P And, it wont work that when you have gate and your unit want to pass through it the gate will automatically open. It dont works that way, but that by Secondary you set if it is "Opened" or "Closed". When closed, its like a wall and no one can pass. Hazza-the-Fox 13:08, December 7, 2011 (UTC) *Excellent! *Agreed- Spy is amphibious! *Agreed on the Alarm Bypass, that would be overkill. So we'll cut it and stick with radar blackout *That may be the best for AirHQ- as the Hangar will still be there to grant aircraft bonuses; of course, now that I think about it, the double-whammy of a downed Radar AND enemy air promotion would prove a nice drawback for the AirHQ serving as double structures- so it depends if we consider this balanced or not (compared to the Soviet's Radar Tower + aircraft access delay). *Advanced unit for which one? Or do you reckomend two tiers of advanced unit (may be a bit hard to define though). *Armory- generally, if the spy enters either the Prism/Tesla towers, support/rearmament bays, and the SpySat/Psi Sensor are shut down for 30 seconds (the high-tier structures) to a minute (attack structures). *Gates- good point. VolteMetalic 19:28, December 7, 2011 (UTC): *So AirHQ is just to radar blackout, yes? *For both. If ou enter as first the Battle Lab, you will gain this special unit. When you enter first Adv Lab, you receive the same unit. *No. I agree that SpySat and Psi Sensor can be shut down, but defenses like Prism Tower or Pillbox I disagree, it s kind of the not-said rule that defenses cant be infiltrated. Hazza-the-Fox 01:43, December 8, 2011 (UTC) *Probably yes. Either that or it grants both effects (as a drawback for the Allies' Radar doubling as an early Hangar when the Soviets have to wait for their fighters- the Soviet spy could possibly get two bonuses out of it). It depends if this is fair or not actually. *Fair enough- actually, I thought of something- what if the Adv Lab also (or alternatively) unleashed some nasty and mildly destructive side-effect on the enemy base? *No problem- defense structures are immune (and support bay structures)? VolteMetalic 19:38, December 8, 2011 (UTC): *That can work too. *Like? *Support Bays, Superweapons and SpySat/Psi Sensor can be infiltrated, but what it may do with Support Bays? Hazza-the-Fox 11:11, December 9, 2011 (UTC) *Yep- as I said, it depends on if the total sum of the Radar Tower's abilities is comparable to the Allied version also getting jets, and potentially being able to build a few before the Soviets are even able to build their jet-producing structure *Well, we could have the Soviet one leak radiation, and the Allied one unleash a large Chrono-Freeze shockwave that incapacitates all in it for a few moments- probably a bit overkill though *Support Bays would simply stop repairing and rearming for 30-60 seconds, which could prove a massive setback if they need either done (especially if they're gunship-crazy). VolteMetalic 13:52, December 9, 2011 (UTC): *Hmm... Ok, lets make it like this! :) *Yeah, a little it is :D *I agree. Hazza-the-Fox 15:30, December 9, 2011 (UTC) *Awesome- agreed! *Yep- good point. So, just to clarify it should grant a special unit, a national unit, or MCV? (for the regular Lab I'd be against it granting MCVs, though for this one it wouldn't be such a bad thing as it's practically ultra-top-tier) *Excellent! VolteMetalic 13:23, December 10, 2011 (UTC): Why it cant be that you will benefit the same from them both? Like Tesla Reactor and Nuclear Reactor both has the same effect when infiltrated. So Tech Laba nd Adv Lab would do the same. As for WHAT they may do... I dont know, will need to think about it. Hazza-the-Fox 14:03, December 10, 2011 (UTC) Suppose you're right- it's just that being a rather massively advanced structure (especially for the defensive effort), I thought it might warrant a more severe penalty for the person who made it failing to look after it. I think if we are talking lab units, it would be a tough question- the Red Alert 2 approach was pretty good (that one of your side's tactical units is fitted with the enemy's tech or attacks (eg Chrono Ivan)- or if the enemy is the same as you, a hugely enhanced version of your own tech (Chrono Commando, and that Super-Psychic "Yuri Prime" unit). Note that the Crazy Ivan, being a national, might look a bit strange suddenly coming up as a stolen-tech unit (not that it really matters- as thinking about Red Alert 2, the 'Commando' wasn't an allied unit at all, outside Tanya or the expansion pack). VolteMetalic 14:26, December 11, 2011 (UTC): It were all infantry... but the question is, where they will be made, because there isnt a space in the Barracks, even when I will count that there wont be both National infantry (aka Crazy Ivan and Desolator), there will be only one free space,a nd we need two. Hazza-the-Fox 14:46, December 11, 2011 (UTC) Good question- maybe they can be some kind of 'paradrop squad' or something instead? And good point about infantry/vehicles, that could possibly split up the possibilities between structures (I would note that EA chose infantry due to wanting the super-units to be a particularly tactical type- hence why they gave Psi or Chronoporters to demolitionists and Psychic units- although with the Adv Lab, the idea of simply a ridiculously troublesome vehicle wouldn't be out of the question.) Air Defender *Full Designation: Air Defender Airborne Infantry *Role: Aerial assault and defense *Cost: 600-700 *Strong against: All targets, structures *Weak against: Anti-aircraft weapons *Secondary Ability: Disruptor Mine - Drops a mine, which detonates and creates a concussive blast, slowing down all enemy untis below *Heroic Upgrade: Prism Beamers - Replaces both weapons by prism beamers, agaisnt ground targets beams splits, much weaker *Primary Weaponry: Mounted 40mm grenade launcher (undecided) *Secondary Weaponry: Mounted .50 caliber AA chaingun Chrono Legionairre *Full Designation: "Chrono Legionaire" Chronotechnology Soldier *Role: Hit-and-run, abduction and neutralization *Cost: 1500 *Strong against: All ground targets and structures at close range *Weak against: Air units, long-ranged anti-infantry attacks, superior numbers *Abilities: Teleportation (?), Radiation Resistant, Smallarms Resistant, Mind Control Resistant, Uncrushable *Secondary Ability: - Teleportation (?) - Chrono-Legionnaire is able to teleport anywhere in the large radius *Heroic Upgrade: - *Primary Weaponry: Portable Chronotech deconstructor gun *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Jager Sniper Commando *Full Designation: Multinational Special Forces "Jäger Corps" Sniper Commando *Role: Infiltration, sabotage, assassination, sniping support *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Infantry, structures *Weak against: Vehicles, aircraft, heavy armor *Abilities: Amphibious, Radar Evasive *Secondary Ability: Switch Sniper mode/Fire mode - In sniper mode uses sniper rifle, crawles, higher range, cant swim and plant C4. In fire mode uses P90, fast movement, short range. *Heroic Upgrade: M107 Barret anti-material rifle - Higher anti-armor damage *Primary Weaponry: .50 cal. sniper rifle *Secondary Weaponry: P90 submachine gun, C4 charges Centurion Trooper *Full Designation: Centurion-class Advanced Armor Heavy Weapons Trooper *Role: Support fire *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Most infantry, light vehicles *Weak against: Heavy armor, fast units *Abilities: Uncrushable, Clear Garrison (with SMG) *Secondary Ability: Deploy Missile Launcher/Undeploy Missile Launcher - Deploys the grenade machine gun, switch back to the sidearm *Heroic Upgrade: Metal-Energy Shield - Centurion gains shield for protection in both modes, also gains option to clear garrisons with GMG *Primary Weaponry: XM307 grenade machine gun *Secondary Weaponry: HK MP-6 submachine gun Mirage Commando (M-COM) *Full Designation: Mirage Commando *Role: Stealth ambush/infiltration heavy infantry *Cost: 1200 *Strong against: All ground targets at short range *Weak against: Aircraft and long-range units *Abilities: Radar Evasive *Secondary Ability: Stealth Suit - Active when commando is still, makes M-COM disguised as environment *Heroic Upgrade: Sonic Amplifier - Sonic blasts travel further *Primary Weaponry: Portable short-ranged Sonic cannon *Secondary Weaponry: C4 charges Vehicles FlameBot *Full Designation: Flamethrower-Assisted Battlefield Reconaissance Robot (FBRR) *Role: Recon, anti-infantry/anti-fortification assault unit *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Infantry, structures *Weak against: Vehicles, terror drones, aircraft, heavy infantry partially resistant to flame *Abilities: Clear garrison (flamethrower stream) *Secondary Ability: Drake Rotation - rapidly rotating turret, creating a firestorm around itself *Heroic Upgrade: Napalm-themite mixture - damage boost of the flamethrower *Primary Weaponry: Flamethrower *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Wildcat IFV *Full Designation: "Wildcat" Convertable AA/Individual Infantry Fighting Vehicle *Role: Recon, anti-aircraft, adaptable combat *Cost: 800-900 *Strong against: Aircraft (primary), multifunctional (secodnary) *Weak against: Tanks, terror drones *Abilities: Weapons Customization *Secondary Ability: Disembark Passenger - Max. 1 infantry *Heroic Upgrade: Composite Armor - Greatly increases armor of the Wildcat *Primary Weaponry: TWQ-3 Avenger SA missile launcher system *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Kodiak Tank *Full Designation: MBT-7 Kodiak Light Main Battle Tank/Tank Destroyer *Role: Main battle tank *Cost: 1400 *Strong against: Vehicles, structures *Weak against: Anti-armor weapons, aircraft *Secondary Ability: Artillery Poke - Mars MRLS nearby Kodiak gains speed bonus, matching Kodiak's *Heroic Upgrade: Roof-Mounted Machine Gun - Places a .50 caliber machine gun on the roof, aganist infantry and aerial argets *Primary Weaponry: 125mm "Impaler" rifled gun *Secondary Weaponry: .50 caliber coaxial machine gun Mars MLRS *Full Designation: M240 "Mars" Multiple Launch Rocket System *Role: Rocket artillery, support fire *Cost: 1500 *Strong against: All ground and sea targets *Weak against: Tanks, aircraft, anti-armor units *Secondary Ability: Tracer Flare - Mars launches a flare which reveals a target area, increasing damage dealing to all enemy units in the area, and increases fire range og all friendly units nearby *Heroic Upgrade: Napalm Missiles - Upgrades the missiles to burn the ground for short period of time with napalm after detonation *Primary Weaponry: Seven 400mm lightweight rocket launchers *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Prism Tank *Full Designation: Type 1131 "Prism Tank" *Role: Precision support fire and laser point-defense *Cost: 2000 (National Subsidy) *Strong against: Structures, aircraft, light ground units *Weak against: Heavy armor, anti-tank units *Secondary Ability: Switch Point-Defense Mode/Prism Refractor - Switches to option of destroying enemy missiles and bombs, returns back to main weapon *Heroic Upgrade: Beam Fragmentation - The Prism beam splits up into more beams with higher strength *Primary Weaponry: High-intensity Prism refractor *Secondary Weaponry: Point-defense refractor Sonic Tank *Full Designation: ??? *Role: Support fire combat vehicle *Cost: 2000-2400 *Strong against: All ground targets *Weak against: Aircraft, fast units, artillery *Secondary Ability: Switch Suppressor/Sonic Wave - Switches to continuous beam which supresses a single target or force-leave garrisons, switches back to sonic wave attack *Heroic Upgrade: Longer range *Primary Weaponry: Sonic wave gun *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 21:49, December 6, 2011 (UTC) The Sonic Tank is effectively a massive gun- operates pretty much like Sonic units in other (3D) CNC games (CNC3, Dune); The sonic gun fires a slow-moving wave that blasts forward at fairly long-ish ranges (slightly more than the average tank- though less than the Devestator), which passes through multiple targets, inflicting severe damage to them all (usually destroying them outright). The sonic gun is fixed to the chassis, so it cannot fire while moving. Its rate of fire is very slow. It has two major drawbacks; #It is a friendly fire risk- your units will be harmed as much as the enemy if they stand in the way of the Sonic blast (BUT- this is cured by the Harmonics upgrade) #Its projectiles are slow-moving, potentially allowing speedy enemies like dogs, Flak Raiders, Terror Drones, Flame Bots etc to simply dodge the shot- the tank aims its shot at the enemy's current position, meaning a moving target will have moved out of the way before the projectile reaches their old position. #It cannot attack aircraft at all So, with this in mind, we'd want to think of a secondary ability, and a Heroic bonus (also note that Harmonics would enhance the Sonic weapon somehow (EITHER range OR width of the projectile), so it should probably be something different). VolteMetalic 10:02, December 7, 2011 (UTC): I agree about him. For harmonics we discussed it, and it was either enhace range or width, must look there, so Heroic may be decided according to the thing we decided about Harmonics :) Why you put there "Abilities"? it has some sort of ability which is passive? For Secondary, what about a kind of a continous attack on enemy unit (probably vehicle), where it uses the sub-sonic "beam" which paralyzes the crew of the vehicles (or ifnantry) by emitting sound, which is very nasty for human or dog ears? :) As a means to make an opening for othe units and Sonic Tanks to hit targets? Drawback is that it must be continously without moving poiting on the unit, dont being able to do anything else. When you send it somewhere or attack different units, it will cancel the connection and enemy unit can move again. Hazza-the-Fox 12:30, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Yep- you're right- either a width or a range extension (as it stands, its disadvantage is that its range is about the same as the average tank (which is actually slightly higher than average*)- but far less than plenty of skirmish units. So I would think that a longer range would prove the more extreme and drastic enhancement- so it depends if it were harder for the Sonic Tank to reach Heroic level, or for a player to reach the Harmonics Upgrade (and both are pretty hard to reach). *on another note- I've roughly defined firing-range categories- but that will be for one of the more appropriate threads. Abilities, I was actually thinking of something similar- that the gun fires a constant distorted stream that suppresses enemy units (I also thought it would be used for forcing garrisoned structures to eject their soldiers (the soldiers flee to get away from the noise). Both could work (or for that matter, the ability could include both). And those limitations for the secondary sound good VolteMetalic 19:50, December 7, 2011 (UTC): :) So the Secondary may be? For the forces leaving garrison... dont know f it is possible, but I guess it is :) Hazza-the-Fox 01:34, December 8, 2011 (UTC) It should be both of the above- targeting a unit suppresses it like the way you described, targeting a garrison empties it out (if it's possible with the supply truck force-ejecting its occupants when radiation is around, that is). Perhaps it could even be an entire alt-fire mode, where it would use these attacks normally instead of sonic blasts altogether until you switch it back? (technically, encouraging players to use an alt-fire to the sheer destructive power of the sonic blasts is definitely a good thing! And these abilities would definitely tempt players away- particularly with the friendly fire risk to think about). With that in mind, the alt-fire should probably be much longer-ranged, to cover the absense of splash damage (as it would probably be a one-target attack). VolteMetalic 20:08, December 8, 2011 (UTC): So you mean that the Secondary may be of the "switch" theme? That could work really well! And for the longer range and one-target strike, I agree :) Hazza-the-Fox 11:18, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Yes! Exactly the idea! Switches between its standard attack, and a long-range single-target suppressor! I reckon that's about it- aside from finally deciding whether the likelyhood of the Sonic Tank reaching Heroic is higher or lower than the player building the Adv Lab and researching Harmonics to decide which one should get a range increase, and which a 'width' increase.... VolteMetalic 14:01, December 9, 2011 (UTC): Width... maybe as upgrade, and range for heroic. Because Sonic Tank must turn itself to attack several targets, with this he cna attack them all at once, or with less "shots" :) Ok, the Secondary, how to formulate it? Hazza-the-Fox 15:28, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Agreed. Formulate it? You mean in text for its description? I'll handle that if you want. On a last note, should it also gain a roof-gunner? That aside is just to discuss the price, name, etc. (note that this is the Allies top tank- and a pseudo-rival to the Devestator (though the Devestator is ultimately stronger and more expensive). VolteMetalic 13:29, December 10, 2011 (UTC): Yes, thats what I mean, to write the description in short :) Hmm... no, it would look ridiculous, even it is counterpart to Devastator in some way :) Hazza-the-Fox 14:04, December 10, 2011 (UTC) First is done (more or less). And no probs- so its strictly a one-gun vehicle. VolteMetalic 14:30, December 11, 2011 (UTC): Ok, so Sonic Tank is set? Hazza-the-Fox 14:47, December 11, 2011 (UTC) Definitely! We just need a full name, and to think of the proper pricing for our vehicles (which will probably need some price comparisons between the RA2, Dune, Generals and RA3 units- along with the double-price for standard tanks to weigh in)... Chrono-Relay *Full Designation: Chronoport Bombardment Coordination Relay *Role: Siege and long-range bombardment *Cost: 1600-2000 (National Subsidy) *Strong against: All ground targets *Weak against: All threats *Abilities: Teleports Explosives *Secondary Ability: ???? *Heroic Upgrade: ???? *Primary Weaponry: Chronoport Relay Device *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 13:43, December 6, 2011 (UTC) The Chrono-Relay is a large vehicle made by the Oslo Group that teleports specialized Chrono-Eraser bombs directly towards any visible target at extreme ranges. It is unclear whether the Relay stores and teleports the bombs itself, or if it simply directs the correct teleportation calculations to an off-site storage facility. Either way, the results are as follows; #It teleports a bomb towards the site, which takes a moment to warp-in to its position (inactive, and vulnerable to attack- but strangely, manages to make a beeping noise during this stage). Anything the bomb is teleported directly upon goes into statis. #If the bomb is destroyed before warping in, it simply falls apart harmlessly #BUT- if the bomb successfully teleports onto the site, erasing the immediate target, it also does intense damage to (very) nearby targets, putting them in a short-term statis (where they are invulnerable to attack, but cannot move until the effect wears off). The Relay also has a secondary function- though I'm not quite sure what that is yet (refer to the Legionairre post- although this question will likely involve the KRONOS too). Mainly, the two options I came up with were some kind of emergency defensive field, or possibly even an emergency teleport device, possibly. Plenty of other options I'm sure though. At Heroic- lots of options there too actually... VolteMetalic 20:08, December 8, 2011 (UTC): I agree with the primary attack. For Secondary... Maybe the ability which Tanya in RA3 is, "Return in Time". When Chrono-Relay is in danger, it can "return back" where he was few seconds earlier, having the health like before, and be able to escape to safety. Hazza-the-Fox 11:15, December 9, 2011 (UTC) I was thinking that the Allies completely lack any form of time-travel (Einstein got himself erased out of the picture attempting to make this timeline- and took most of his technology with him- the Allies only being able to gain the documents about subspace matter transmission). Come to think of it I'll have to put up the story... But that is good thinking. VolteMetalic 14:01, December 9, 2011 (UTC): In RA3 Einstein is dead :D And they have this ability for Tanya. That could work. Hazza-the-Fox 15:23, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Still, it's a nice theme that Allies can't use time travel this time to fix up the problem :P VolteMetalic 13:29, December 10, 2011 (UTC): Hehe, yeah :D But still, it would be interesting ability of the Relay, hmm? :) Hazza-the-Fox 13:53, December 10, 2011 (UTC) Possibly, though there are still plenty of others to consider (especially as those slow-fields, and mass-freeze shockwave attacks have yet to be applied). VolteMetalic 14:30, December 11, 2011 (UTC): The mass-freeze wave could be applied to Kronos, and slow field I also suggested for Kronos. Hazza-the-Fox 14:51, December 11, 2011 (UTC) Yep- I think we'll probably need to pick which one for the Kronos, and one for the Relay (and I think it would come down to which one would prove just right/too powerful in Kronos' hands). OR- one option for a dirty truck could be that the Relay displaces itself temporarily, as some form of attempt to 'hide'. Possibly even taking a few nearby units with it- to return later where they left off. (either they all go into statis- or they may even dissapear into some vortex, and come back out later). It may even have some interesting effect if it gets attacked by a terror drone, and needs to buy some time). Aircraft Unlike the Soviets, the Allies have split their aircraft construction between two separate structures, to accomodate their special heavy STOL craft. All fighter craft are constructed, housed and rearmed in the Airforce HQ. All gunships, free-standing/flying aircraft, and their special heavy STOL aircraft are built at the Hangar. The Heavy STOL aircraft are also housed and rearmed in the Hangar. Raptor Fighter *Full Designation: F-22A Raptor Air Superirority Fighter *Role: Fast airstrike, aerial defense dogfighting *Cost: 1200-1600 *Strong against: Structures, ships, vehicles, aircrafts *Weak against: Anti-aircraft weapons *Secondary Ability: Return to Airbase - Raptor flies back to Air Field with speed bonus *Heroic Upgrade: Laser Targeting - All weapons can be fired from greater distances *Primary Weaponry: Four GBU-54/B laser-guided bombs *Secondary Weaponry: M61 Vulcan cannon, AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles Comanche *Full Designation: RAH-66B Comanche Stealth Attack Helicopter *Role: Stealth gunship *Cost: 1400-2000 *Strong against: Ground vehicles, infantry, ships *Weak against: Anti-aircraft weapons, aircraft *Abilities: Radar Invisible, Invisible (Stealth Mode only) *Secondary Ability: Switch Stealth Mode/Combat Mode - Switches into fully invisible mode, where it is invisible to most units but can use only the machine gun which reveals its position, switches back to combat mode where it loses its stealthiness but can use the missiles *Heroic Upgrade: Wing Missiles - Adds Comanche a pair of wings which dont affects its invisibility and accommodates two additional missiles in them *Primary Weaponry: AGM-114 Hellfire missiles *Secondary Weaponry: XM301 cannon Blackhawk Chopper *Full Designation: MH-60S Blackhawk Stealth Transport Helicopter *Role: Stealth transport *Cost: 1200 *Strong against: Infantry, light vehicles and defenses *Weak against: Anti-aircraft weapons *Abilities: Radar Invisible *Secondary Ability: Disembark Passenger - Max. 6 infantry *Heroic Upgrade: Rocket Pods - Blackhawk gains a wings with rocket pods agaisnt ground targets *Primary Weaponry: Two M134 miniguns *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Ships Sonic Dolphin *Full Designation: Sonic-Assisted Attack Dolphin *Role: Naval stealth skirmish *Cost: 800 *Strong against: Anything in the water, Giant Squid (in large number) *Weak against: Anti-sub weapons, Giant Squid *Secondary Ability: Unknown- possible second application of echolocation device *Heroic Upgrade: N/A *Primary Weaponry: Sonic amplifier grafted to melon *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Avenger Missile Hydrofoil *Full Designation: Avenger-class Missile Hydrofoil *Role: Anti-air, anti-sub support ship *Cost: 1700 *Strong against: Aircraft, submarines *Weak against: Battleships *Secondary Ability: Switch Full Salvo/Normal Fire - Switches between modes, all missile launchers fires all missiles at once with long reload time and deactivation of depth charge launcher, switches back to normal fire mode and activates the depth charge launcher *Heroic Upgrade: SS Missiles - Avenger is able to attack surface targets with lower firepower and fire range *Primary Weaponry: Three AA missile tubes *Secondary Weaponry: Depth charge launchers Battlecrusier *Full Designation: Nelson-class Battlecruiser *Role: Naval dominance, surface bombardment *Cost: 1900-2100 *Strong against: Ships, structures *Weak against: Submarines, aircraft *Abilities: Sonar Detection *Secondary Ability: Decoy Buoy - Launches a buoy which lures all missiles and torpedoes to itself, covering nearby friendly ships *Heroic Upgrade: Vulcan Cannons - Grants Battlecruiser several vulcan cannons against aircrafts *Primary Weaponry: Two 300mm guns *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Trident Submarine *Full Designation: Trident-class Missile Submarine *Role: Surface bombardment *Cost: 2000-2200 *Strong against: Light ships, ground targets *Weak against: Submarines, ships, squids *Abilities: Submerged *Secondary Ability: Missile Strike - Launches a barrage of missiles on designated area *Heroic Upgrade: Submerged Fire - Gives "Sub" option to launch its missiles from underwater *Primary Weaponry: Two torpedo tubes *Secondary Weaponry: Three tactical ballistic missile launchers Drone Carrier *Full Designation: Liberty-class Aircraft Carrier/ Robotic Drone-Manufacturing and Control Facility *Role: Support and long-range bombardment *Cost: 2600 *Strong against: Ships, structures *Weak against: Submerged ships, aircraft *Secondary Ability: Scout Drone - Sends a drone into designated area, where it will fly over with great sight range, revealing targets for the mothership *Heroic Upgrade: Air Defence Drone - Adds Drone Carrier option to attack enemy air units by new kind of drones *Primary Weaponry: Attack drone aircraft *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Kronos Capital Ship *Full Designation: "KRONOS" Chronotechnology Capital Ship *Role: Long-range disruption and neutralization *Cost: 3000 *Strong against: All targets *Weak against: Aircraft, group of enemies *Secondary Ability: ??? *Heroic Upgrade: ???? *Primary Weaponry: Mega-Chrono-Displacement Gun *Secondary Weaponry: N/A Hazza-the-Fox 00:16, December 5, 2011 (UTC) The Kronos is a massive ship that had been stripped of conventional weapons and outfitted with a massive version of the Chrono-Legionairre's gun. It's difference that it is about 3-4 times more powerful, and more importantly, can attack from over 40 times further away (easilly attacking from even the range of a missile siege unit). I think, the Kronos' secondary ability should be a massive (defensive) space-time shield that slows (or erases) all incoming enemy projectiles- or possibly enemy units too? Alternatively, it could Chrono-teleport itself (and possibly all nearby naval units to a new location- so long as it is within sight range of itself or another target (alternatively, this could be given to the legionairre). To be honest there are PLENTY of options at hand here! VolteMetalic 12:19, December 5, 2011 (UTC): Yes, as Secondary the space-time dilatation that slows down all enemy units and projectiles sounds good, but what may be the drawback? And Heroic... that may be a problem. It isnt problem that it cant gain experiences, but mroe what it can gain. And just now I remembered one very important thing regarding the weapon. There isa chance it cant be programmed. Hazza-the-Fox 13:47, December 5, 2011 (UTC) That would be a gigantic problem actually (programming); Heroic, not so much. Drawback- probably some kind of Chrono-self-displacement after the field is projected. VolteMetalic 18:35, December 5, 2011 (UTC): I remembered Shock Therapy encountered this problem when implementing Chrono Tank, and they better switched to give it as primary weapon a sort of microwave beam. Because, it isnt a problem to make the unit be "chrono-rifted" into different state, untouchable and immobile for the time being, but problem is when the unit is in this state, NOTHING can touch it. In other words, Kronos and Legionnaire can bring the enemy into different state, into the "chrono rift", but they cant damage it than. What do you mean, displacement? Hazza-the-Fox 02:25, December 6, 2011 (UTC) Hmmm, that would pose a problem; Some possible solutions: *Chrono-rifted units have an in-built counter that corresponds to their hitpoints as long as the rift-mode is active (which would mean ONE legionairre would be able to inflict this attack- but others would not, sadly) *Chrono Attacks freeze the unit, but creates a new object (an eraser shield) that engulfs the unit, and can only be harmed by eraser guns- when the sphere reaches a certain amount of damage by the guns, it is destroyed, and destroys the unit it was tagged to (the actual 'target'). Destruction by cancelling the attack only destroys the sphere- forcing the Legionairres to start another one from scratch. And 'displacement' I just meant gets put into "Chrono Rift mode" temporarily (maybe we should call it rifting or locking or something...) VolteMetalic 09:52, December 6, 2011 (UTC): Hmm... I think we should let it opened, as neither knows if it can be fooled in RA3 engine. Chrono rift Kronos itself? Thats quite strange. Hazza-the-Fox 10:42, December 6, 2011 (UTC) Seems that way- or else we may have to see what the Starcraft 2 engine can do! (probably about the same amount and lacking the same amount, I'd imagine). But yeah, we'll have to see what prove to be possible. Oh- another thing to keep in mind, is that there are three kinds of Chrono Rift effect, that all have the common basis that the unit is in a strange warp-like state, and cannot attack; #'Vulnerable warp aka JumpWarp' (Chrono Legionairre teleporting in, can't move or attack, but can BE attacked #'INvulnerable warp aka Statis' (temporary state where the target is frozen, but also invincible. Is completely safe for the unit- but pulls it out of the fight for a short period of time. #'Eraser warp' (The Legionairre and Kronos attacking a target and erasing it- essentially invulnerable warp, but can be deconstructed and erased by the Legi or Kronos). VolteMetalic 10:04, December 7, 2011 (UTC): Hmm... I will have to ask for these options. Structures Cold Fusion Power Plant *Full Designation: Cold Fusion Reactor Power Plant *Role: Power generator *Cost: 600 *Power: +100 *Requires: Construction Yard *Unlocks: Air Headquarters *Builds: N/A *Secondary Function: Base structure boost/ emergency backup generators *Special Abilities Unlocked: ParaDrop (France only) Air Headquarters *Full Designation: Air Force Control Fighter Command and Radar Tower *Role: Radar, fighter airbase, remote surveillance drone launch facility *Cost: 600 *Power: -30 *Requires: Cold Fusion Power Plant + Depot *Unlocks: Radar and minimap; All tier 2 units and structures; *Builds: Raptor Fighter *Secondary Function: Houses and rearms fighter jets *Special Abilities Unlocked: Surveillance Drone Defenses Prism Tower *Full Designation: Multi-Optical Prism Projection and Refraction System *Role: Heavy automated defense *Strong against: General ground targets *Weak against: Aircraft, heavy ground targets, saboteurs, artillery with spotters *Cost: 1500 *Power: -30 *Requires: Construction Yard, Air Headquarters *Unlocks: N/A *Builds: N/A *Abilities: Prism Channeler *Secondary Function: N/A *Special Abilities Unlocked: N/A *Armament: Baseload-feed Prism energy refractor Grand Cannon *Full Designation: 450mm Defensive Howitzer Platform *Role: Defensive artillery gun *Strong against: General ground targets, slow heavy units *Weak against: Aircraft, fast ground targets, distant artillery with spotters *Cost: 2000 (National Subsidy) *Power: -60 *Requires: France Nationality, Construction Yard, Air Headquarters *Unlocks: N/A *Builds: N/A *Secondary Function: N/A *Special Abilities Unlocked: N/A *Armament: 450mm howitzer (heavy high-explosive shells) SpySat Uplink *Full Designation: Surveilance Satelite Uplink Center *Role: Intelligence-gathering center *Cost: 2000 *Power: -60 *Requires: Battle Lab *Unlocks: Spy Satelite *Builds: Spy Satelite *Secondary Function: Send Spy Sattelite - Send a controllable and invulnerable satellite from orbit, which scans the area for short period of time before returning back to orbit *Special Abilities Unlocked: N/A Chronosphere *Full Designation: ChronoSphere *Role: Support Superweapon *Cost: 2500 *Power: -100 *Requires: Battle Lab *Unlocks: Chrono-Jump *Builds: N/A *Secondary Function: Chrono-Jump/Subspace Jump *Special Abilities Unlocked: Chrono-Jump/Subspace Jump Orbital Prism Array *Full Designation: Orbital-refracted Prism Projector Array *Role: Primary Superweapon *Cost: 5000 *Power: -150 or -200 *Requires: Adv Lab *Unlocks: Orbital Strike *Builds: N/A *Secondary Function: Orbital Strike *Special Abilities Unlocked: Orbital Strike Hazza-the-Fox 22:11, December 6, 2011 (UTC) The Orbital Prism Array is the Allies primary superweapon. It is simply a vast array of ultra-high powered Prism Projectors that all face upwards into space where they are refracted by a gigantic satelite mirror array towards the target area. The result is a constant barrage of light hammering the broad area. These prism beams disperse upon hitting the ground, striking any nearby targets and doing intense damage. VolteMetalic 10:15, December 7, 2011 (UTC): I agree with it, only the power consumption would be increased. Hazza-the-Fox 12:38, December 7, 2011 (UTC) Agreed- what do you recommend? VolteMetalic 19:55, December 7, 2011 (UTC): Hmm... probably 150, or even 200, so it is quite a lot of "burden" for the power supply of your base :) Hazza-the-Fox 11:21, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Definitely agree. That would be perfect! I think the final decision is between 150 or 200 then. I'd reckon it depends on if the fact that it requires another high-costing structure as a predescessor (adv lab) is enough a burden in getting this structure. VolteMetalic 14:11, December 9, 2011 (UTC): I think it would require Adv Lab. Hazza-the-Fox 15:21, December 9, 2011 (UTC) Obviously! :P What I meant was that would this requirement warrant -150 or -200 power (being that the handicap of buying the expensive Adv Lab would already hinder the player accessing it). VolteMetalic 13:58, December 10, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, I understand it, but I wanted to make it depending on the need of Adv Lab :) I think 150 would be it. :) Hazza-the-Fox 14:51, December 11, 2011 (UTC) Agreed! Upgrades Alarm Bypass Training 'Scarab' Guided Missiles Harmonics Subspace-Link Discussions Gameplay Hazza-the-Fox 08:25, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox okay, the Allied Side. The Allied Side focuses on more specialized units trying to compliment each other's firepower to delivery a concentrated line of attack. Many of thier units are slightly faster but lighter than Soviet counterparts, and many deliver more damage in a shot- but may take less damage and/or have a slower rate of fire. Thus, the Allies are more geared to hit-and-run than the Soviets are, and need more sophisticated combos with additional allied units to substantiate an attack force. Technologically, the Allies use Prism Technology, Sonic Technology, advanced missile technology, and Chrono Technology. Disturbingly, there has been a trend in more unethical units- either the result of commanders becoming more desperate to win the war, insidious backers pushing the bounderies, or both. Infantry- basic infantry are generally stronger, more specialized and better protected than Soviet alternatives, but cannot reach the same level of power as the likes of the Tesla Troopers or Desolators. Overall, their soldiers are more equal in abilities- but simply perform vastly different functions. Vehicles- lighter forms of armour and engines combining the best thinkers of their combined nations, allow most Allied vehicles to travel faster and more swiftly than their Soviet counterparts- but take less damage- note that the technology is much closer than in other conflicts, so the difference in speed and armor are not as distinct. The munitions loaded onto vehicles often do considerably more damage- but lacking the advanced articulated robotics the Soviets seem to be installing in their loading systems, rate of fire is often much poorer. Aircraft- fast, light, and armed with long-range, accurate and hard-hitting weaponry, intended for refined, precise attacks on specific targets. Note that Allied jets are easier and cheaper to access- their fighter bays (housing 4 jets) come attached to their Radar structures- whilst Soviet fighter bays (only 2-3 jets) come with their Hangar structure (immediately available after the Radar is installed). The downside is, their hit-and-run heavy aircraft (Nightwing and Hurricane) each require their own specialized runway; And thus prompts the construction of their own Hangar-equivalent to accoomodate large aircraft (they are also where Helicopters are built). The Allied Navy is more distinct; unlike the generalized, versatile all-purpose ships possessed by the Soviets, the Allied navy is composed of ships that specialize in only a particular form of attack each, but do so at far greater levels. The all-purpose Soviet Destroyer (the Sea Reaper) has only 2 AA guns, a single depth-charge mortar, and a single naval gun; the Allied Battlecruiser has only two very powerful naval guns, and generally are more powerful. Structures I will get to later too. Hazza-the-Fox 09:54, August 24, 2011 (UTC)Hazza-the-Fox Hmmm, seems my name's not coming up on these posts Non-buildable Units VolteMetalic 22:14, November 7, 2011 (UTC): Now I remembered that there we dont has a list of units which are ingame but are not buildable (like in RA2 Boris' MiG Bombers or cargo planes) Ok, so we will need a default cargo plane for both sides, probably a heavy bombers (something like B-52 and Tu-95 Bear), what else? Oh, yes, Allied drones of Aircraft Carrier. Hazza-the-Fox 01:00, November 9, 2011 (UTC) YES! A very good point! Of course, the B-52 and Tu-95 Bear sound like good cargo planes/paradrop/bomber planes; I'm not quite sure what other non-buildables there are, but I imagine we might have quite a few to consider. Something we must discuss further.... VolteMetalic 08:49, November 9, 2011 (UTC): Well, I more thought that "B-52" and "Tu-95 Bear" will be just a bombers! XDD Ok, so fot these units. I am here talking only about Allied units. *Cargo plane something like C-130 Hercules, maybe just with one pair of engines (turbojet, no propellers) *Bomber (like B-52. In RA3 Uprising there is Harbinger Gunship which is somewhat smaller B-52, and I love Harbinger and its design, so something like these two) *Drone Carrier's attack drone (only the armament and name, and strong/weak) *Drone Carrier's scout drone (the same as above, just without weapons) *Possibly the Drone Carrier's AA drone Spy plane? Ground atack aircraft (A-10)? Gunship (AC-130 Spectre)? And something ground-moving? Hazza-the-Fox 23:03, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Yep, those 5 sound pretty good. And a likely yes to those other ones. Particularly for the Allies (makes sense, as the Allied Radar doubles as an airbase, naturally getting the spy plane would be a logical choice (and with fog-of-war present, it functions simply by flying over and having a broad line of sight). Ground attack aircraft, quite likely too- though that would weigh up if we are still using Generals-style powers. As for ground-moving; that is also potentially likely; especially if we decide on a more abstract resource system (especially that border-gate I mentioned- where you take control of the 'border crossings' at the ends of the map, and friendly but non-controllable transporters will roll in from the outside of the map and into your base to deliver supplies- and if they are killed by the enemy they are replenished from outside- but you miss the shipment). It depends if this system will cover all map standard resources (aside from crates), or if we retain the RA3/Generals system of warehouses that you collect resources with your own units, rather than the warehouse making its own trucks to send to you in the fashion of the gates (in which case, we would need a second type of supply truck for both sides- both player-built, and friendly 'border gate' trucks, each). VolteMetalic 23:47, November 9, 2011 (UTC): The spy plane might be something like SR-71 Blackbird :) I vote yes for the General-style powers, as they are not so limitated as the "protocols" in original RA3. You would have as many powers you want (as long as they will fit into the "support power menu" on the left side of the screen (like CnC3). This will goes to the bomber unit too (might be seen via the support power). I think that the normal buidable ore collectors/supply trucks might be enought for these "border map gates". I am not totally sure if these uncontrollable trucks might be able to drive to you, deliver the cargo, and return. Supply Trucks might serve this just as well. And I am both for these resource gatherings. The border gates, the warehouses (or ore mines like in RA3) and the naval "mines" (if you remember this). And the randomly-appearing crates, they are a MUST :D In theory, there might be some... inordinary units which might appear only in the (possible) campaign. Like in RA3 Allied campaign (US) President's limousine or President's helicopter. THere might be (in case it will happen) some special units in one mission which will be unique or special (Air Force One? :P) Hazza-the-Fox 00:04, November 10, 2011 (UTC) Agreed on Generals powers. Hmmm, AI poses a problem, though if it won't work then I reckon normal trucks would be fine. And agreed- local warehouses, naval oil rigs, and border gates and crates should all be there. And good point, things like Limos, Air Force One, probably some older-generation tanks and vehicles and newer prototypes (or overly elaborate super-units and mega-defenses) would be excellent. VolteMetalic 08:27, November 10, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, and actually we can add there Tanya Adams, and I have one idea for super unit for Allies (which will appear in one mission). I will post it in "Fuhrer Units" or what is its name :D Hazza-the-Fox 08:32, November 11, 2011 (UTC) Sounds interesting!!! Celestial Haven *Full Designation: Sovereign-class Aircraft Supercarrier Celestial Haven *Role: Mobile aerial HQ, bombardment, aircraft carrier *Cost: N/A *Strong against: Everything *Weak against: Submarines, long-range attacks *Abilities: Production Building (when deployed), Mind Control Resistant *Secondary Ability: Deploy/Undeploy - Changes into structure, returns back to mobile ship form *Heroic Upgrade: *Primary Weaponry: *Secondary Weaponry: Fpir vulcan cannons, three missile launchers VolteMetalic 14:07, November 15, 2011 (UTC): Just adding it in to dont forget it. Not neccesary have to discuss it now. Hazza-the-Fox 21:22, November 15, 2011 (UTC) Indeed; I'd say the first question is what would be its precise aircraft layout; I was thinking as it was a large ship, it would be interesting if all its fighters, jets and bombers were specialized 'aircraft carrier planes'. That's the first thing I can think of; Second, would it have any weapons? (obviously, but would they be drone-manufacturing facilities, missile bays (cruise missile aircraft off the runway?), or would it also have a few AA vulcan guns/missile launchers? VolteMetalic 22:27, November 15, 2011 (UTC): Well, as it cna deploy into structure, it can produce few units which only Haven can produce, like anti-sub helicopter (Sea King), drone helicopter (light gunship, without need of reloading) but it can also produce normal fighter-bomber (STOL F-18 Hornet merged with F-35 Lightning), which is a kind of equivalent of Raptor. Its capacity is for 2 fighters, but Raptors can also enter it. There is maybe option it can have 3. These aircrafts will "store" inside the ship when it changes back to ship (from structure to unit) and appear again when it deploys. For its "weaponry", it will have Drone Carrier's attack drone against ground units, in both its forms, or only in mobile. Against air targets it will send out the Drone Carrier's Heroic AA drones, with the same appearance as attack drones. For weaponry, it will ave a set of vulcan cannons and missile launchers, in both forms. It is a huge ship, so it can have some more firepower :D It can defend itself quite well, but still if you send in a large fleet, Haven is doomed. Hazza-the-Fox 01:15, November 16, 2011 (UTC) Sounds awesome- no arguments from me there! So the idea is, when it is deployed (anchored?), all the aircraft it accomodates are rested on a place on its runway (fighters on one side, helicopter on another, etc), and while moving they are all stored below deck? Sounds pretty good (and possible, it simply deploys into an ocean 'structure' (which happens to look exactly like the ship)! I just had a good idea you could add to that is that you could add a supply helicopter (or better yet, have one of the attack helicopters double as a transport) that can carry supplies from oil rigs (etc) back to Celestial Haven, with each shipment actually repairing the ship; forcing the player to pick the right moments to let his/her anti-submarine/shipping defense down to administer some repairs? I think we could definitely also consider if it could use its drones while mobile, or for that matter its anti-sub or supply helicopter (one or the other would be a good balance I think). VolteMetalic 08:42, November 16, 2011 (UTC): Exactly! The model remains the same, maybe just few shifts in it like opening and closing few places, but it will be the same, whenever as structure or ship (yes, anchored cna be also used as the definition). For helicopters, there is a difference. The anti-sub helicopter will dont need to land there, it is not gunship so it doesnt need to rearm. And the drone helicopter is also independent. Hmm... in theory, it might work, but the supply helicopter will not be able to be stored inside Haven, so when Haven will once again changes back to ship to reposition, the helicopter will must follow it manually by player. But it really isnt bad idea :) The attack and AA drones will be used always when mobile, but i am not sure how to make it while immobile, as the two runways will be filled with the fighters. I am thinking about actually adding third runway UNDER the two, in the underdeck, with only being exposed on the front and back of ship. Like this it will be good to sove the problem with the runways, but I am not sure how will it look like. That Haven can prduce anti-sub or supply helicopter is technically impossible. One of the limitations of RA3 engine is that there is no way a "unit" can produce a units or structures. If it can change into structure (MCV and ConYard) it is possible, as it will be structure it cna do it, but not otherwise. Thats something of no-go. So Haven can produce units only when deployed. Which reminds me, just to list on what Haven can produce: *Raptor Fighter - Air superiority fighter, good against both aircraft and land units *Hornet Fighter-Bomber - Actually, I am not sure of its weaponry *Anti-Sub Helicopter (Sea King) - Independent helicopter, abiltiy to switch between dropping depth charges directly on enemy ships or launching torpedoes from little distance *Drone Helicopter - Mini-Comanche, dont needs to rearm, support "gunship" with machine gun/mini gun and two or four missiles (can launch only one or two at once, than reload) *(possibly) Supply Helicopter - Aerial money collector And another possibility is, that haven can produce Air Defenders! :D And question is, against what Celestial Haven might be "strong"? Aircraft, ground-based units, or simply agaisnt all? :D Hazza-the-Fox 10:21, November 16, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good! Underdeck was the first thing I thought of when reading your sentences (it would match the Drone Carrier after all)- I did wonder where the manned aircraft would fit below deck while in transit- but on second thought, I don't think anyone would notice- and if it really came down to it, the drone bays would easily fit in the flanks directly below deck- but a two-tiered ship would look awesome anyway- so I'm sure critics would forgive us anyway (on the flipside, if the ship had two 'tusk' runways for the drones, it would help it stand out)! I think the simple answer for the limitations of the unit-producing-unit problem could be easier; it can only produce or accomodate units when it is in 'anchor mode', and the player instructs it to change back into 'travel' mode (or 'unit mode'), the ship sends orders to all of its helicopters to return to ship- and it will not change into a unit until every surviving aircraft has returned; and when transformed, acts like nothing more than a 'transport' with passengers (the aircraft) And I like the list- I would suggest *King Raptor- vastly improved AA fighting skill, otherwise same as standard Raptor *Hornet- more focused as a heavy bomber- excellent against ships, structures and ground units- but weak against enemy air *Agree on the Sea King *Drone Gunship (Helidrone?) sounds pretty cool *Obviously think the supply helicopter is a good idea ;) *Making Air Defenders would probably work too! And lastly for vulnerabilities- I think given that the mission would imply the Celestial Haven would be launching some kind of 'guerilla' naval battle against an enemy naval base/airbase and fending off naval and air attackers, I would say that the ship would simply be good against "everything" and vulnerable against "everything" also. Particularly as its payload is dishing out damage to all targets, while the ship itself is potentially vulnerable. Also, it would depend on if Celestial Haven can detect subs or not (I think to make gameplay more interesting, the answer should be no). The result would be the 'Haven needs the support of Battlecruisers and Avengers- which in turn are a distinct vulnerability if the enemy starts bringing out the Control Ship.. ;) Not to mention, being attacked by a giant squid would be a bigger surprise (although that would depend on dolphins being available yet- if not, then a squid merely attacking the ship would mean game over) VolteMetalic 13:03, November 16, 2011 (UTC): I am nor sure if it can be made that the Haven dont transforms into "travel mode" till all aicrafts are on deck. Helicopters are all independent so they dont need to be loaded, similar to Blackhawk :) Aircrafts in RA3 can survive without a Airfield to return to unlike in ZH, where when the aircrafts dont had option to return to the Air Field (because it was destroyed) they will start loosing health and than fall destroyed. In RA3 aircraft can fly without the Airfield, just dont has option to rearm. So maybe Haven can change to "travel mode" without the need to wait for fighters to land, so they will have to follow Haven and wait till it changes back to "anchor mode" to land. That is my concern. When it will has just these two runways on the deck, it will house two fighters in "anchor mode". But than it cant send the drones, because the runways can be filled. So the third runway positioned in lower level will be used by drones when the ship is in "anchor mode". When Haven is in "travel mode", the aircrafts will be inside, and so the drones can use the two runways on deck. But than, what will be done with the lower runway? Also, that comes to question of how many drones Celestial haven will actually launch. Depending on the number of runways active the number might be. If it will has 2, it will be may be 4 per runway, so 8 in total. If third will be also active during "travel mode", it may be also 4 per runway, so 12 in total. Like this it will really make much more advanced version of Drone Carrier (that may use 5 or 6 drones). When in "anchor mode" only one runway will be active for drones, so only 4 drones will be launched when ordered. *King Raptor... yeah, makes sense, as this is the HQ of Allied Pacific Navy and Air Force, it makes sense it will have more advanced fighters :) But still normal Raptor has the option to land on Haven. And in theory MiG. *Hornet being moree of the ground attack fighter ameks sense :) It will use Maverick missiles and bombs agaisnt ground targets, and autocannon agaisnt aircraft. but still it isnt strong enough, just as a means of defense. *Drone gunship, it will be like a scaled unmanned version of Apache for example :) *Not sure thought which helicopter might be this supply helicotper, but that s a thing of another discussion I have also thought about producing a naval infantry, but than I said no, because it will look strange that the supercarrier "throws" an amphibious infantry in the middle of pacific ocean. That sounds strange :D Also I considered some kind of vehicle where the Marines or SEALs will be, but I rejected it. Haven already has large field of expertise, this is just too much :D In the mission where Celestial Haven will appear, it will be more of a direct assault operation, where you will probably have the objective to make your way through the Soviet fleet with Celestial Haven and a fleet of two Drone Carriers, several Battlecruisers and quite a lot of Avengers, and with a huge cash. After you will make your way to the shore of (probably) Kamchatka peninsula, the Allies will send a hovercrafts to the beaches and make there a small base, and than your objective will be to secure something, destroy a base etc. I filled the "strong agaisnt" as "everything", but weak only to submarines and long range attacks, like Dreadnought and V5. While Celestial Haven is mighty ship, it is slow and cant fight very well against large number of enemies. The Control Ships will be really a problem, but Haven can deal with them as it is ressitant to mind control. And Giant Squid, I think that Haven can be resistant against them too. It is simply too huge ship for them to handle, you will need maybe three squids to actually start moving with Haven, and they will must coordinate :) And in engine this might not be possible. Now question is, how many vulcan nanons and missile launchers Celestial Haven might have. Hazza-the-Fox 11:23, November 17, 2011 (UTC) That sounds like a better idea for aircraft than mine Depends which runways you are referring to; you could have 4 manned planes per single/double runway, one runway for bomber drones, another for AA drones, and a Helipad or two (not to mention a deck that rises to 'reveal' the new aircraft). Come to think of it, if you position the runways right, you could actually have a super-long manned-craft runway on the right/center, and a drone runway next to it on the left... there are plenty of ingenious ways to mix them together. Those ships sound good. Agree, discuss the supply helicopter (I definitely think it would make a good gameplay mechanic- alternatively, it could be a proper gameplay mechanic where the shipyard (or even a neutral tech structure) could send a resource chopper to deliver packages that repair ships a little bit each time- in turn, it would mean all ships could benefit, and the shipyards are instead responsible for the choppers, rather than the ships themselves) No probs- and it probably would look strange having infantry leaping out into the pacific ocean! Agree on everything else. To answer your last question, I think Celestial Haven should actually only have a light amount of armaments- probably 4 vulcans, and probably 2-3 medium-power missile launchers (these combined being about as effective as a patriot). It should be enough to reasonably defend itself, but too little to do much, making Celestial Havens moer dependent on using its own aircraft, and friendly ships, to provide cover for it. VolteMetalic 23:01, November 17, 2011 (UTC): I made a quick sketch of possible look of Celestial Haven. Image. There are three runways. Runways 1 and 2 are used by King Raptor and Hornet when in "Anchor Mode". I have thinked about 4 aircrafts in two rows, but there is the problem how will it look like when you will send a "farer" aircraft to action, while aircraft before it wont? It will come through it,a nd thats why I am so reluctant to it. So, in my thoughts Haven will be able to produce only two fighters on Runway 1 and 2, and Runway 3 in Anchor Mode will be used by drones as means of attack or defense, depends on the situation. When the ship switches to "Tracel Mode", the fighters on Runway 1 and 2 will... probably disappear or slide inside the "hangar" and than disappear, and all 3 runways will be used by the drones. The number of how many drones per runway is thing to consider. Also, like with Heroic Drone Carrier, when you will send the attack (bombing) drones on a mission, and enemy aircrafts appears to attack carrier, you will order it to attack the aircraft, and carrier will send a set of AA drones in the same number as of the attack drones. On the right side there are two helipads. Thought I forgot that the supply helicopter will bring supplies here. But it will require only addition of some things, replacing one helipad so the supplies can be brought on deck. The other helipad, from there the helicopters, and probably Air Defender, will be coming from, or Air Defender will be coming through that "hangar entrace" near the helipad. FOr the weapons, the vulcan cannons positioned on all four corners, has around 270° fire range, maybe the front ones more. The missile launchers are three (two on the sides, one under bridge) and the third on the roof of the hangar. I absolutely agree that Haven can fight directly, but still needs a support of its aircrafts and other ships. The left side contains various antennas and radar dishes, both on the bridge tower and roof of the hangar. Hazza-the-Fox 01:09, November 18, 2011 (UTC) Good design; And if you're worried about the 'odd' aircraft using the runway, you could design a space on the flanks of the deck next to the runway for the jets to be positioned when not about to take-off. And some code to ensure that when you construct a Raptor, it would start placing them on, say, the right side and climb towards the left, while the Hornets would start from the left and progress towards the right; also, when selecting a single jet, you select ALL of its kind, and the coding will only allow all of one type to fly out at a time (so the Hornets would wait for the Raptors to take off before they could do the same). Similarly, both Helipads would automatically be used as cargo drops, unless one or both are assigned to a Sea King (achieved by simply constructing a Sea King). Either the Sea King's death reverts its helipad to a supply-drop pad until another Sea King is made; or, the player could toggle them in the build-menu...That would add an interesting dilemma that the player would choose between either improving its defense against subs (the biggest threat), or being able to repair damage (specifically, either choosing one of each, or double repair/double Sea King. Even if you didn't do that, you could just have one of the helipads cluttered with boxes, to indicate which one the supply drop is. And that aside, agree with all of these! VolteMetalic 09:07, November 18, 2011 (UTC): That wont be possible, and I fear that it wont be possible in RA3 to make it that aircrafts roll in from a pad on runway and take off. Because RA3 didnt implemented this and counted it, so the aircrafts each needs its own runway. And selecting all units also I dont see very positively (in other words, no). I told you Sea King will be independent, it dont requires helipad to work, just to produce it and than Sea Kings can hunt down any number of ships they want till they are destroyed. Like this the supply post is always free :) Also, now it reminded me that Haven will while deploying into Anchor Mode spawn few aerial repair drones. Hazza-the-Fox 10:10, November 18, 2011 (UTC) Ouch- that changes my airfield designs somewhat. Do aircraft still roll down their individual runways, or are they strictly VTOL from a 'Helipad' type square? (I noticed the RA3 hangars are just 4 helipads). I suppose either way, we could simply make the runways look STOL, even if the craft on them are VTOL. I take it nobody has coded shared-runway code into another RA3 mod? Of course- I keep forgeting (probably used to that giant Osprey on the old Destroyer's back in RA2)! That probably makes it even easier! And Aerial repair drones is a very good idea! VolteMetalic 12:07, November 18, 2011 (UTC): Normally in RA3 all aircrafts who were landing on Aifield are VTOL. But I heard it is possible to make the STOL in RA3, but no one tried it out, or at least I am not aware of it. I guess that it requires a runway per one aircraft. Yeah, thats maybe it :) I also tend to think about Osprey as Secondary for Battlecruiser :D And the repair drones are a must actually :D Hazza-the-Fox 09:38, November 19, 2011 (UTC) Ah, there may be hope yet! (as technically, for a STOL to exist, it would have a flight path laid out to follow before it leaves its hangar- so it could be possible to cheat in this thing and have aircraft coincidentally 'share' a runway- depending on what the code would allow. Cool- then that part is definitely agreed! VolteMetalic 12:35, November 19, 2011 (UTC): Yes, but still it dont changes the problem I mentioned, the aircraft might move through each other, and it wont have enough space on the deck. The ship's size must remain reasonable. Hazza-the-Fox 13:15, November 19, 2011 (UTC) Is it possible in that case to 'choreograph' the fighters, so that aircraft in dock A would start its takeoff immediately, while dock B had a 2 second delay? In the case for the size of the deck- good point. VolteMetalic 14:12, November 19, 2011 (UTC): I am not sure of it, but I doubt it. Hazza-the-Fox 01:34, November 21, 2011 (UTC) That's odd- wouldn't we be using the same scripts that would have the aircraft glide out of the runway? Or would it be that the individual runways have no bearing on the units' AI that are placed on them? VolteMetalic 12:21, November 21, 2011 (UTC): Again? Simply, RA3 didnt counted with se of runways, all untis which needed Air Base are VTOL. In theory you can use the same logic, You can make a script that the aircrafts will roll on runway and take off, even if you will count that there are more using one runway, when you will have only one aircraft, it will follow the scripting when the Air Base is full. I can ask for this, but I guess the answer will be the same as I told you now. Hazza-the-Fox 04:07, November 22, 2011 (UTC) No probs- Outdated Units VolteMetalic 09:19, November 9, 2011 (UTC): I would add into this RA1-time medium tank, the MBT-4 "Protector" medium tank. A combination of PzKpfw. VI Tiger I-II and Leopard 1-2. Hazza-the-Fox 22:54, November 9, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good; Essentially these units in the mod render everything up into Red Alert 2 obsolete, and are parallel (better or worse) to the RA3 units. VolteMetalic 23:47, November 9, 2011 (UTC): i ahve the design for the Protector in head. I will draw it and you mgith judge it than :) Hazza-the-Fox 00:06, November 10, 2011 (UTC)Cool. Also, now that I think of it a lot of my new units are probably ahead of RA3 in terms of damage output (although behind in strict technology). VolteMetalic 00:18, November 10, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, that is truth (that about output and technology). Hazza-the-Fox 03:12, November 10, 2011 (UTC) Yep, of course it in itself reflects technology in different areas; the backwardness of industry and energy-based technology is replaced by superior engineering, metallurgy and ballistics. ;) VolteMetalic 08:26, November 10, 2011 (UTC): Yup :) But some space-time techs are little misssing, thought in RA3 I was using only "Black Hole Generator" of Assault Destroyer, which worked that it was sucking all enemy projectiles (bullets, tank shells, torpedoes, bombs, missiles) which fly into the field to attack (for example) second AD (assault destroyer), they all are sucked into the AD with generator active. It makes smaller damage, but still damage. Hazza-the-Fox 09:17, November 10, 2011 (UTC) Something like that; on a similar note, one of the aims for the units is to try to make sure their special features match the unit in a technological sense (that is, a laser-defense gadget makes more sense on a Prism Tank- but the regular Kodiak would be wierd if it suddenly unloaded a singularity bomb). VolteMetalic 10:32, November 10, 2011 (UTC): Yeah, thats correct.